/fascist/ - Surf The Kali Yuga

>>4673 (OP) 
You would like WLM. All you have to do is hold up some banners and resist the urge to call niggers niggers. Then bam, good optics. But at some point we have to take things back by force because the subhumans (including the kikes) will not leave because we asked politely. Also, the policies that benefit them are forced on us with violence. This is an occupation and I don't think a single occupation  has been up-heaved by asking politely.

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>He didn't read Siege.
If you claim to be an intelligent man then I'll take you're advice and be patient with you. Patriot Front, Blood Tribe and America First are scams. None of these ideas are new and it's all been tried already. We need new ideas, new strategies, things the world has never seen before. It starts with accepting that we've already lost long ago and there is no "saving" the west. This means understanding that there cannot be a "waking of the masses". That's why groups are scams, our movement has a serious sunk cost fallacy problem. Good men put themselves on the line and contribute significant resources to organizational efforts which are ultimately futile.
Does this mean give up? Not at all! In fact it means the opposite. It means don't take the path of least resistance, and carefully consider what you're investing your resources into. Make your own network of racially conscious individuals in your area. Come up with plans and apply your skills and resources in such a manner where it is the most cost effective.

>>4685
You're right and I will look into them.

>>4687
>Make your own network of racially conscious individuals in your area. Come up with plans and apply your skills and resources in such a manner where it is the most cost effective.
It sounds like your solution is the same thing as PF, BT, and others are doing except in smaller numbers and less effective.
3 guys holding signs on the side of a road are a laughing stock. 300 however, that is effective.
3 guys cannot run a charity event or create an alternative to the System that White people will participate in. 3,000 however can.
I am not even going to discuss acts of terriffic ism because Siege has been around for decades and no one has taken down the grid or pranked Obama. No one will do anything, nor should we do anything without a support base.

>>4689
btw, I have not, nor will I ever condemn direct action such as Brenton Tarrant. He is a hero and even though I believe his target selection was a bit silly, he is braver than all of us combined since he put his foot down and hit back at the invaders in what ways he could.
But given that it has been 5 years since then and the regime is just as in power as before, I believe it's safe to say that stochastic pranking is not effective. But it is especially ineffective if the targets are so poorly selected.

>>4689
I thought you'd misunderstand so I should elaborate. To think outside of the box you must first drop your assumptions.
>It sounds like your solution is the same thing as PF, BT, and others are doing except in smaller numbers and less effective.
It's not about scale. It's about human management and utilizing everyone to the best of their abilities. There's something important to be said about quantity vs quality. Anyone can rally up a large number of protesters but "effectiveness" is a different thing entirely.
I'm not trying to offer any specific "solution", only a difference in approach. People read history backwards. And often when people are "redpilled" through the internet their history is re-written and they often come to the conclusion that the NSDAP was solely responsible for Germany's liberation. As they are ignorant of the years of struggle and resistance leading up to the NSDAP's victory. This leads them to believe the solution is to join some large organization that appears to be "effective" on it's surface. In reality large organizational approaches like this are just engaging in movement cannibalism. They're not actually trying anything new, they're just using their numbers to catch neophytes and other movementarians that just want a social club they can be racist in.
I'm offering an approach based on realism and without ego. Everyone must become their own leader, and you can consider everyone with even the slightest racial integrity to be part of your "organization". Don't let the drama of the movement or empty words of "pro-white unity" confuse you. And while it is (should be) obvious that the path to ultimate victory will require illegalism, that isn't the only way to be useful. Protests however aren't effective on their own, if that's all we needed then we would have won a long time ago.

>>4692
Okay, so you say that the ideal strategy is to form up into groups of 3. To do what?
idk what Blood Tribe does, I haven't seen any of their propaganda. But Patriot Front is able to use the pooled resources of several hundred to a thousand men to produce very good, high quality videos. Their large manpower pool allows them to distribute pro-White literature across the country, host very large and meaningful charity events, and to go toe to toe with enemy organizations and come out on top.
So we have 3 dudes in a neighborhood. What are they supposed to do that 300 cannot?

Seriously, I would like to know.
And then please explain what the goal here even is.
So we have, we will imagine, 100 groups of 3 men distributed across the country. Doing... idk, small scale flyposting I guess.
Do you want them to recruit more people and form into larger, more meaningful organizations? Are they supposed to remain smallscale cells forever?

Let's imagine that through some act of God, or just jewish stupidity, the US regime comes crashing down.
In one timeline, we had Patriot Front grow into a Sin Fein style party. We'll say they had only a tenth of their public support due to ZOG brainwashing. But that's still millions of White people. Already organized and ready to seize power, particularly if they Butler-Planned it and concentrated on a few states like the PNW.
Alternatively, we have several thousand cells of pro-White wannabe insurgents.
They will not be able to seize control over anything in this power vacuum. Organizations do that. Which means the US army, police forces, local political parties, antifa, black nationalist groups, gangs, cuckservative "constitutions" militias, Three %ers (assuming they don't all have heart attacks), Mexican cartels, even fucking homeowners associations.
They will seize power in the event of a serious collapse. Random loners in small cells will still be at step 1.
They'll need to actually overthrow the local regime that establishes itself to gain power.

>>4694
>Okay, so you say that the ideal strategy is to form up into groups of 3.
No? No one has ever said that. What are you even talking about?
I literally said to do the opposite. Did you even read my post?
The tone of your post makes you sound stuck up. You don't know everything. You're not Covington bro.

>>4696
I apologize. I confused your post with a post on a different site that was talking about a Trouble Trio strategy. I am retarded.
That said,
>Make your own network of racially conscious individuals in your area. Come up with plans and apply your skills and resources in such a manner where it is the most cost effective.
Obviously this is a great idea and I support it, but that's just saying "Build more pro-White organizations"
Yes. I agree. We need more pro-White organizations. So idk why you say that groups are scams if you intend on making one.

>>4690
If anything, Tarrant is a glimpse into the potential destruction that a regular White man is capable of. I don't think it's entirely fair to criticize whom he chose to target. Of course there are much better targets than Muhammed Al-Shitmonkey #6,000,000,001 and all his product of incest brother-cousins, but those better targets are also behind layers of armed security liasons. I am grateful that at least one White man had the balls to take action against a hostile demographic and I respect his diligence to directly honor the memories of those whom were wronged by members of said demographic in painting his gear with tributes.

Anyway, not trying to sound like I'm taking a dump on you and I don't reply with this believing you are dumping on Tarrant. I just don't agree that his target was "silly". Common muslims prostituted what, well over 1000 White girls in Rotherham and intimidated their families while the authorities knew about it and sat on their hands for decades? I am ecstatic some kebabs were removed. They should've stayed in their own damn countries.

>>4697
No, I'm not saying make more organizations or groups (except for a few specific purposes). In fact I think we should cut out the fat of all the useless organizations we already have.
I already explained why orgs are scams. But to elaborate, behind the empty words of movementarians the only reason they really join these groups are so they can have a social club they can be racist in. It just provides them an easy way out to say they're "doing something". In reality all of the "success" of such a group comes from cannibalizing the movement and causing more needless drama.
Protests and food drives without tactical application is totally ineffective and the only reason these groups do it is to become trendy among the movement. I have never met someone who's been "redpilled" by some mass-demonstration or food drive. I'm calling it "movement cannibalism" but even Rockwell talked about this as cultural necrophilia. 
The leaders of such groups are often grifters and the groups themselves often devolve into ego cults. Joining a group only puts a target on your back and opens you up to infiltration. If any of these groups actually did have a chance of success the system would pull every trick in the book to bring it down, even if it is a "legal" group.

Consider the following points:
* Groups are an illusion. You don't need a public-facing named group to have racist friends, make connections or contribute to the success of your comrades.
* Revolution is a multi-faceted process. There's not one single solution or easy way out. If only it where that simple.
* Everyone is their own leader. True leaders arise naturally. Anyone demanding you to follow them are probably unfit to be a leader and have ulterior motives.
* Action needs tactical application. There are many ways to "take action". Protests are overrated. They are only useful under specific conditions.

>>4698
I agree. I have stood up for Tarrant every time someone attacks his character and I believe that denouncing him in a vain hope that we will not be labeled "extremists" is the most pathetic, limp wristed response possible. The left never denounces violence and we only invite more attacks if we do. I will never disparage his character, which I admit is made of sterner stuff than mine.
That said, imo each racially conscious White man is worth 10,000 shitskins. Not just for moral reasons but simply because we are such a small minority, losing a single one of us is meaningful. The only times it is beneficial to start wasting random Muslims is if it is possible for a team or even an individual to strike again. That may convince some to leave on their own.

If it's just one guy who gets captured immediately, there is no reason for others to flee. It was just a one off event. Free New Zealand welfare + empty headed White women to rape is too great an allure when compared with the very slim possibility that you might be killed by another Tarrant. It needs to be consistent.

>>4700
To what end though?
I am not trying to be rude to you. You say that smaller groups are better than national ones. But I do not see why.
>people are only looking for a social club
Maybe so, maybe not. But those larger organizations have far more impact than smaller organizations. 
>they cause drama
Well, then drama queens should be named and shamed out of the movement.
No backstabbing tolerated until we are no longer slated for racial extinction.
Grifters who actually do what they are accused of should also be rejected by the nationalist community. But the term grifter is like the term fed. It gets thrown around at literally everyone who does anything more than post anonymously. If everyone gets called a grifter, the term is meaningless. Only specific individuals should be shamed like this, such as Richard Spencer and Alex Jones, who on the one hand, contribute nothing to the movement and on the otherhand actively discourage racial activism. Yes, they are grifters. But I've seen everyone from Keith Woods to Ryan Faulk called grifters. They have contributed a great deal to the movement in exchange for almost nothing asked from it. I have even seen people accuse Dr. William Pierce and George L Rockwell of being grifters. I wouldn't be surprised if I encounter people claiming Hitler was a grifter at this point. That shit needs to stop.
>I have never met someone who's been "redpilled" by some mass-demonstration or food drive
Maybe you're right. What should small groups be doing instead?

>If the groups were effective, they would be destroyed. Since they exist, they must not be effective.
I disagree with this line of thinking. It is too causal and ignores the fact that the regime, despite all its injustice, still operates under a set of rules. 
>You don't need a public-facing named group to have racist friends, make connections or contribute to the success of your comrades.
What if you have racial friends and there is also a group to do larger scale actions like running candidates for office? I hope that PF does this in the future. I wish that the NWF did. Would they be a pariah? Of course. But if a local mayor is loyal to White people, the only thing the enemy can do is violate their own rules of conduct, which will destabilize the regime and give us another weapon of the word.
>Revolution is a multi-faceted process. 
So why not have both?
> There are many ways to "take action". Protests are overrated.
What should we be doing instead (as a small group, I mean)

>>4708
>To what end though?
>So why not have both?
>What should we be doing instead
Again I'm not offering a specific solution because there is none.
>You say that smaller groups are better than national ones. But I do not see why.
>What should small groups be doing instead?
I never said that. In fact I said the opposite. Everyone is their own leader. Everyone has their own network. This means I will work with anyone with even the slightest racial integrity if I think it's worth my time. But it's often hard to work with people who are still stuck in the old mass movement mindset because it just leads to hypocrisy and group drama. Read my first point and ask yourself, what is a group? I envision a movement as a vast network across America where nationalists work in lockstep to bring down the system. But what we currently have is something that operates more like an capitalist economy based on group numbers. This is because groups are toxic to the cause. This mindset that "if only everyone would join this one organization, then we'd win!" only causes more disorder.
To expand upon this, there are multiple layers to success, each one contributing to the next:
* The success of yourself as an individual.
* The success of your comrades.
* The success of the movement.
* Ultimate victory.
>grifters
Many movement "leaders" like Thomas Rousseau are grifters because they know these strategies are ineffective. It's obvious they have no real plan because there is no tactical application to any of their action. They just do things for the sake of internet clout. It's just one massive ego stroke for them. Even if they genuinely think this is the path to victory the outcome is still the same so they should be treated the same.
>It is too causal and ignores the fact that the regime, despite all its injustice, still operates under a set of rules.
You can't be serious. There are dozens of cases of the system breaking it's own "rules" to destroy groups that threaten the regime. The National Alliance, NWF and Atomwaffen are all perfect examples.
>running candidates for office?
That will never happen because there is no political solution. You seem to like the NWF, you should read the Brigade. Even Rockwell didn't expect to win when he ran for office, he was a showman and it was a tactic to make a name for himself in a time when "Nazis" weren't such a boogeyman.

>>4710
>I'm not offering a specific solution because there is none.
>Many movement "leaders" like Thomas Rousseau are grifters because they know these strategies are ineffective. It's obvious they have no real plan
Are you even doing what you advocate?

How did the regime take down the National Alliance? afaik, Dr. Pierce died and the movement broke up due to petty squabbles so common on our side. The same thing happened with NWF. Harold died and there was no successor so the movement collapsed. Fittingly, this even happened with Free Germany.
Atomwaffen produced multiple cases of men advocating violence & brandishing weapons. I am not saying that violence in the face of genocide is wrong. But talking about it, nevermind 'posting fucking photos of yourself doing it online' is asking to be arrested. Serious men do not talk. They act.
> you should read the Brigade.
I have.
The Party doesn't exist. Even Harold Covington said this over and over. He never talked about running for office but I don't recall him denouncing this either. Having pro-Whites in the police force or local government seems like an achievable goal. Far more than building an insurgency force. We are clearly unable to do so.

>>4714
>Are you even doing what you advocate?
How many times do I have to say I'm not advocating for anything in particular? I'm only criticizing your approach.
>How did the regime take down the National Alliance?
It's a shadow of it's former self. iirc after pierces death they got some prominent members on bogus child porn charges.
>The same thing happened with NWF.
Feds had their hands in it prior to Herold's death.
>Atomwaffen produced multiple cases of men advocating violence & brandishing weapons.
Oh no, that's so scary!
>But talking about it, nevermind 'posting fucking photos of yourself doing it online' is asking to be arrested.
What are you even talking about? They never posted anything illegal. It was a revolutionary NS militia in association with the global Ironmarch fraternity and various ideological publications. And you can't say they didn't act, haha
>I don't recall him denouncing this either.
He did, many times. There's one article in particular I can't seem to find due to all the drama with the current NWF.

>>4715
>I'm not advocating for anything in particular? I'm only criticizing your approach.
So you offer nothing but trying to tear down others who are trying to fight back against our genocide.
>bogus child porn charges.
That is certainly a Damocles hammer. There is nothing we can do about it but framing individuals is not the same as wantonly shutting down pro-White organizations.

>Who cares if Atomwaffen brandished weapons?
Brandishing weapons is a sign of non-serious beliefs. If the regime is run by a cabal of genocidal jews who will stop at nothing until we are all machinegunned into a pit, then posting pictures of yourself brandishing weapons, on jewish owned social media no less, is a monumentally stupid thing to do. 
>"Don't make threats you will never carry out" ~Harold Covington
What is the point of doing this?

>They never posted anything illegal
I recall at least one incident where a member was arrested for making direct and actionable threats online. I was under the impression that this is how they were taken down.
>He did, many times.
Why?

>>4716
>So you offer nothing but trying to tear down others who are trying to fight back against our genocide.
On the contrary, criticism is a positive thing if you can handle it.
>There is nothing we can do about it but framing individuals is not the same as wantonly shutting down pro-White organizations.
When it's competent, important individuals it kind of is.
>Brandishing weapons is a sign of non-serious beliefs.
No? That's literally what any militia does.
>then posting pictures of yourself brandishing weapons, on jewish owned social media no less, is a monumentally stupid thing to do. 
People post pictures of weapons on social media all the time. It's not like this is some crazy thing.
>What is the point of doing this?
Covington was referring to a totally different context.
>I recall at least one incident where a member was arrested for making direct and actionable threats online.
Yeah shit started getting crazy under Cameron.
>I was under the impression that this is how they were taken down.
They officially disbanded themselves after being labelled a "foreign terrorist organization".
>>He did, many times.
>Why?
For the same reasons I'm telling you right now.

Can you please stop making so many assumptions?

>>4717
>I'm not doing nothing, I'm criticizing online, anonymously
I've been listening to the old Radio Free Northwest broadcasts and Harold Covington had a lot to say about that kind of behavior. Dr. Pierce also spoke on this.

>Militia's brandish weapons
They're not serious.
They're hobbyists.
>People post pictures of weapons on social media all the time
You said earlier that the regime will violate the law to put dissidents in prison. Now you're saying that it's okay to post pictures of yourself brandishing weapons online.

If Covington said we shouldn't even try to take local power, I believe he was misguided. Nothing you have said is a good argument against it and since you are everything Harold Covington himself called wrong with the movement, I wouldn't appeal to him if I were you.

You don't do anything IRL. You just anonymously drag others down. 
We have wasted the past 50 years. Harold himself described how he would attempt to organize something and while goat dancers desperately tried to tear it down, others promised support... online.
But when the time for proving your worth arrived, no one stood up out of fear of the big bad FBI and antifa goons.
I am tired of living in fear of anti-Whites.

>>4718
>>I'm not doing nothing, I'm criticizing online, anonymously
>You don't do anything IRL. You just anonymously drag others down.
The fact that you think the internet is all there is to the movement only shows you haven't done much irl
>you are everything Harold Covington himself called wrong with the movement
You don't know anything about me lol. ngmi if you think criticism is "dragging you down".

>Militias training and preparing for the collapse is hobbyism
>Joining some social club to brag about putting up stickers for e-cloud is real serious action!

>We have wasted the past 50 years.
Jeez I wonder why? Maybe because we've been stuck in an endless cycle of movementarianism since Rockwell.
>I am tired of living in fear of anti-Whites.
Then maybe it's time for something new.

You seem offended, don't take any of it personally. I've been very patient with you.

>>4719
>there's more to the movement than the internet.
Yes. That is what I am advocating.
You're not critiquing if you have no alternative. You're just searching for ways to tear others down who are trying their best to resist. 
If organization into large groups is wrong, organize your own cell. Your argument against it doesn't even make sense.

>They're just putting up stickers
And creating an alternative to the system which is what we have been talking about for years. Again, what are you doing? What are you offering instead?
You're not doing anything and what you suggest is to revert back to the same thing but on a smaller, less effective scale.
Why?
If what you preach is accurate, there is no reason why we cannot do both.

GLR also would be a movementarian by your definition.
If movementarianism is wrong, suggest an alternative. 
>what about being a movementarian but smaller and less powerful with less activity and less ability to reach people and less ability to mutually support?
That's not a real suggestion. 

>You seem offended
On the contrary. I am trying to have a conversation with you. But that doesn't mean that I need to nod and agree with everything you say. Especially when you yourself are demanding that we revert what is already being achieved and go back to small scale cells that achieve nothing.

Please, with all due respect as a man who agrees with me that we have a right to exist as White people, tell me how a bunch of disconnected small friend groups translates to pushing back against genocide.

>>4720
>You're not critiquing if you have no alternative.
Yes I am, criticism and advice are two different things.
I challenge you to come up with an original thought and maybe I'd share some of my own ideas. You have to show that you're at least considering my perspective without assumptions or bias.
>Your argument against it doesn't even make sense.
That's because you're constantly making up shit about what I'm "arguing". It's like talking to an NPC that keeps repeating the same few lines. 
>You're not doing anything and what you suggest is to revert back to the same thing but on a smaller, less effective scale.
This entire time I've been saying the opposite of that. It's like you're incapable of comprehending action without some organizational structure to telling you exactly what to do.
>I am trying to have a conversation with you.
Doesn't seem like it when you're constantly imagining things I never said.
>GLR also would be a movementarian by your definition.
GLR was movementarian but that was a viable solution in his time and he did it way better than anyone today.
>tell me how a bunch of disconnected small friend groups translates to pushing back against genocide.
Because they're not disconnected! They're connected through our common cause. A movement is supposed to be a united front of white resistance, not a bunch of disconnected groups competing for popularity among themselves.

>>4721
>I challenge you to come up with an original thought
On what? Organization?
Everything has already been though of, including your ideas.
I'm not trying to be rude to you, Harold Covington himself said this; Every idea you think you are a genius for coming up with has already been suggested 1000 times.
If you want to build a small cell of friends in your neighborhood? Great. Do it.
But don't try to tear down others while offering no solutions. There are only 2 ways in which our race will survive in America.
1. We must seize back control over the government in whole. This requires either forming a mass party or bringing about a collapse and seizing power. This also requires a well organized party.
2. We must withdraw our better elements to a geographic area (PNW) and fight a bloody resistance struggle to secede from the US.
This also requires serious organization and yes, taking local political power.

>You're misrepresenting me
Fine.
Lay out what you want in detail so I don't need to fill in the lines with logical assumptions.
>This entire time I've been saying the opposite of that
< groups are scams
<Make your own network of racially conscious individuals in your area.
< useless organizations we already have.
<orgs are scams. 
>"Power comes from organization" Dr. William Pierce
<Joining a group only puts a target on your back and opens you up to infiltration
This implies that you oppose groups entirely. But I would like you to confirm or deny this before I make any more assumptions.
<have racist friends
<Everyone is their own leader
Which reminds me of "leaderless resistance" which was all leaderless and no resistance ~Harold Covington (paraphrased)
<I envision a movement as a vast network across America where nationalists work in lockstep to bring down the system.
Which sounds like many groups. So what's wrong with the existing many groups? Why do we need to destroy what we have already built at great pain and effort to rebuild again?
< groups are toxic to the cause.
Which implies the opposite of what you just said is your vision UNLESS you actually imagine that everyone will do this networking on their own. Which you and I both know is ridiculous so I won't assume that's what you meant.

This is what I base my assumption of your plan on. Your words.

>They're connected through our common cause
What's stopping you from being connected with the common cause of PF, BT, WLM, and many other existing organizations? 
You never explain this except by claiming that they're all grifters but never elaborate why.
> A movement is supposed to be a united front of white resistance, not a bunch of disconnected groups competing for popularity among themselves.
Yeah, that's never going to happen if we're tearing each other down all the time. This is why I respect Rousseau. He doesn't backstab as far as I am aware. TDS shit on everyone but themselves. We need to stop the backstabbing. We are losing time.

>>4722
So basically you have no original thoughts just parroting dogma. You can at least try. At least stop trying to sound like some genius for repeating other people's words (you're not).

>>4723
The same can be said for you. Your ideas are not original. I have heard this leaderless resistance stuff pitched in a thousand ways.
Building "undercover" cells of pro-White friends, infiltrating the regime, getting into HR and hiring other pro-Whites, becoming jews, infiltrating the GOP, I have heard it all. None of your solutions are original and neither are mine.

>>4724
I still haven't "pitched" any ideas, you're just arguing with yourself at this point. You need to take a break from the internet and learn not to be such a sperg. I'm not going to discuss solutions unless you're ready to be creative.

>>4725
You have already said quite a lot. >>4722
I'm not here to jump through your hoops. I am here to do my small part to save my race. If you had any plan and cared about White people, you'd share it. 
So you either have no plan or don't care about White people.

Either contribute to our racial survival or stop trying to drag successful White nationalists down like a nigger.

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>>4728
I could say the exact same for you bud.

>>4729
Okay. Well, firstly, I am trying to bring traffic to this board. That something I am doing.
I have distributed hundreds of pro-White posters around my university. That's something I am doing.
I've attended local government functions and helped stop a weed shop from opening in my community. That's something. And yes that counts as racial activism since weed and niggers go hand in hand. Plus it weakens White youth.
I will grant you, I am not currently in a pro-White organization. But I am currently in a precarious legal situation with my race mixing brother who is a member of Antifa or at least a supporter, so I need to resolve this first.

I don't backstab organizations. I have only supported the ones that do not backstab and drag down others. I even expressed support for you if you actually did this which you don't so I really wish you actually did what you claim you believe is beneficial for our race.
My thread is advocating that we appeal to every day problems that affect White people because I sincerely believe that this will make more impact upon them than talking about the jews. But I do not slander or discourage you or anyone else from doing just that if it works.

So, if you want to ask me what I am doing for the cause, that is what I have done recently.

>>4730
>I've attended local government functions and helped stop a weed shop from opening in my community.
Well that's something with a modicum of creativity which is what I've been asking for this whole time. And on top of that, this is something you didn't need some large organization for. It shows that you have the autonomy to take your own initiative and don't need to be told what to do like some submissive fag.
I've:
* Helped forge alliances in the movement.
* Infiltrated antifa.
* Prepared and trained.
* Been in countless protests.
* Sold everything I have and moved across the country to form a cell.
* Written articles.
Currently I've been advocating people to email various conservative outlets, the attorney general and members of congress about this article https://www.wired.com/story/the-dangerous-exploits-of-an-extremist-fbi-informant/
Ask the question, why are my tax dollars going to satanic pedophiles? This is something anyone can promote in conservative spaces and it has the possibility to result in an excellent (legal) trollage of the feds. 

inb4 "I thought you where against protests"
Having the experience isn't bad and joining something like WLM can be a good way to meet new people in your area.
>>4722
>Lay out what you want in detail so I don't need to fill in the lines with logical assumptions.
There are nuances to my words that might sound contradictory on it's face. You should read my words carefully. 
>This implies that you oppose groups entirely.
I oppose groups for their own sake. It can have it's uses but it's better to only involve people you trust. The point I'm trying so hard to make is that you don't need a group to take action, and often groups hinder action.
>Which reminds me of "leaderless resistance" which was all leaderless and no resistance
It might seem that way to someone who isn't a natural leader. But what I'm trying to express is less about resistance and more about mindset and approach.
>Which sounds like many groups.
No it's the opposite of existing groups because of the movement cannibalism dynamic I've been trying to express. You said yourself that we've wasted the past 50 years on hobbyism. That's BECAUSE of this movementarian mindset where we're only competing among ourselves for popularity, larping as the NSDAP without recognizing the years of struggle leading up to it.
>Which implies the opposite of what you just said is your vision UNLESS you actually imagine that everyone will do this networking on their own.
Yes, it's not hard to make friends. The only way you'd have a problem with it is if you're a helpless sperg that needs an organization to enforce it for you. Certain people exist that act like nexus's to the rest of the movement so it's not like you have to do it entirely on your own. All you need for membership is the initiative to make friends (something that groups can make harder).
>What's stopping you from being connected with the common cause of PF, BT, WLM, and many other existing organizations? 
Because not everyone is going to join every organization (and they shouldn't). Ignoring the pitfalls I've already mentioned of groups. I know this from personal experience, in my region PF and WLM have bad blood because both regional leaders are stuck up egotists that miss the forests for the trees. - movement cannibalism at play.
Groups are an illusion. Our righteous cause transcends groups.
>You never explain this except by claiming that they're all grifters but never elaborate why.
I've already elaborated why. These strategies are proven to be ineffective. It's obvious they have no real plans. Yet they demand people to follow them and engage in movement cannibalism.
>He doesn't backstab as far as I am aware.
He does.
>We need to stop the backstabbing.
Yet when push came to shove you where an asshole this entire thread because you can't take criticism, and I have been very patient with you.

>>4736
>Infiltrated antifa.
Okay, that is interesting.
With respect for what you have accomplish, what have you learned? To what degree are you infiltrated? Is this just on their discords or do you know how they're logistically organized? This could be very helpful information for nationalists. I myself have been researching Unicorn Riot.

>I oppose groups for their own sake.
What is the metric that you use to judge whether a group exists for its own sake or for the cause?
>larping as the NSDAP without recognizing the years of struggle leading up to it.
But that struggle involved organized men in a movement.
>you need for membership is the initiative to make friends (something that groups can make harder).
Why is that?

>in my region PF and WLM have bad blood because both regional leaders are stuck up egotists
This is a serious issue. We are staring into racial extinction. Petty squabbles are secondary. If we are fated to kill each other over petty ideological quibbles, let's wait until AFTER we have defeated the World Enemy.
>Groups are an illusion. Our righteous cause transcends groups.
Ideally, there should just be a single Party. But you & I both know this is unrealistic.

I admit you have done more than I have. I am trying to improve. However, I still oppose your denouncing of existing organizations. We need them & we need more of them. You said that the leaders of PF and WLM are engaging in self destructive petty squabbles over their own ego. Yet you yourself are also attacking the organizations themselves rather than the individuals responsible.
This is like attacking the NSDAP and even the concept of organizing against the jews in Germany because you personally think that everyone should be a leader.
That's not happening. We cannot all be leaders. Take your ideas and go with them. Leave others to fight how they see fit. We do not have the time to backstab.

>>4746
>do you know how they're logistically organized?
You don't need to infiltrate to learn how they organize themselves. But how they organize themselves is actually similar to what I'm proposing. Antifa isn't one single organization. They have certain satellite group chats that act as a nexus to the rest of antifa.
When they have black bloc protests for example, no single organization is behind it. Some prominent social media outlets might promote it but that's it.
Imagine if we had the same thing. Word gets out that there will be a nationalist demonstration at a certain time and place, all the white nationalists in the area show up. All that's required for membership is the initiative to show up (and that most people don't hate you).
And it's not like this is unrealistic. The Unite the Right rally was close to this. The UK riots right now are exactly this. Obviously there are some bugs that need to be ironed out on our end, but for the past 50 years the left has been advancing tactically while we've just been larping in the shadows of our past glory. If we can get in the habit of doing this it will certainly be more impressive than anything any single group can accomplish.
>what have you learned?
Their own immediate plans for being subversive. It was mostly boring anti-republican stuff.

>whether a group exists for its own sake or for the cause?
I'll compare two groups for example, the Sunshine State Nationalists (an activist group in Florida) and Blood Tribe. The SSN was a front for a psyop being pulled by ourguys where they would publicly endorse DeSantis, forcing him to either denounce SSN as "racist neo nazis", giving us attention and legitimacy, or to endorse us. Blood Tribe on the other hand has no such goals, they only exist for their own numbers.
Quality vs quantity. Most of the time it's better to only involve people you trust in such groups, instead of having a public membership.
>But that struggle involved organized men in a movement.
No it didn't. It involved every day men in the deteriorating conditions of weimar. The NSDAP came later after people where fed up with the existing reactionary groups.

>>something that groups can make harder
>Why is that?
Drama. I don't want to join every group just to be able to coordinate. The ego of certain movement "leaders" preventing them from trying new things.
I'll share some stories of mine.
I suggested we target a mostly-white small logging town that has been neglected by the system for a food drive. In this town one corporation holds a monopoly on groceries and they have outrageous prices. Yet the town's industry is vital for the state. If we could get the towns people to our side, then form a white union we could leverage this vital industry for political demands. Even if that doesn't happen because it's unlikely, nothing makes people more loyal than feeding them. Yet another example of movementarian ego getting in the way of real action.
During a WLM meetup a Patriot Front member literally told me Rousseau forbids PF members from networking and that he shouldn't even be there. I've found that PF fanboys can be the worst offenders for movement cannibalism.

>If we are fated to kill each other over petty ideological quibbles, let's wait until AFTER we have defeated the World Enemy.
You remind me of the people who think SIEGE is an ideological book.
>Ideally, there should just be a single Party.
Ideally there should be a single movement. But we don't even have that.

>I admit you have done more than I have.
It's not about how much we've done it's about the effectiveness of our action.
>We need them & we need more of them.
No, they need us and we need less of them.
>Yet you yourself are also attacking the organizations themselves rather than the individuals responsible.
Because the individuals responsible are the leaders of these organizations.
>This is like attacking the NSDAP and even the concept of organizing against the jews in Germany
No it's nothing like that because we're not at that stage yet.
>That's not happening. We cannot all be leaders.
If you don't have the initiative and autonomy to take action on your own then you are just an NPC who defected to our side by chance. But even NPCs would be better off not following some movement leader. As individuals I hope they break this movement brainwashing and focus on their community instead.
>Take your ideas and go with them. Leave others to fight how they see fit.
My ideas contradict theirs. I always initially try to resolve these contradictions civilly but more often than not they backstab me or try to shut me down. Maybe I've become pessimistic and bleak with experience but the way I see it we need a revolution in the movement before we can cause a revolution in the real world.

>>4748
>Imagine if we had the same thing
I agree with you, this would be great.
One of many things which we need to start building up now.
I was listening to a leftist podcast "It can happen here" which is about racists, right wing estreemism, blah blah blah. However they talked about the truth about their protests. They served in part as training, in part intimidation, but also as a way to network with other anti-Whites & expand their influence.
We could be doing this. We should be doing this. The hurtle is, as always, getting people to actually do it. I do not consider myself a leader yet as I must learn to follow before I lead. Maybe I'm not cut out for leadership at all. idk. But I would need clout to set up such a discord so I will remain in the learning phase. Maybe I will do this eventually. Certainly, I would need to implement serious security features.

What does Antifa do to keep secure communication? If anything?
What kinds of things are they doing to infiltrate what few organizations we do have?

I do not know much about Blood Tribe. What do they do that's actively harmful for the cause? 
I accept that you have done more for our race than I have done so far. I humbly apologize. Since graduating, I've been reflecting and realized that posting online and meming alone is not going to defeat a genocidal global empire. Yet bullshit prevents me from engaging until it is resolved out of fear of being doxxed and losing a great deal of my own possessions, making me a hypocrite.
I am planning on joining PF once I can but I take what you have reported of them seriously. Selfish behavior in the threat of what we are facing is retarded to the point of wicked. 

>It's not about how much we've done it's about the effectiveness of our action.
I agree but barely anything is being done in the first place. I feel like Harold Covington except worse since I myself have only done the bare minimum expected of me. But even my simple poster dissemination would be considered dedicated activism by the standards of our movement, which is non-existent. The enemy is engaging in ethnic cleansing. The country should be on fire and White men should be fighting back. But all we do is post on 4chan and call each other feds. This is insane. Our race is insane.

>>4749
>One of many things which we need to start building up now.
Well it starts by viewing the entire movement as your "group" and making friends.
>I would need clout to set up such a discord
Get off Discord nigger everyone worthwhile is on Telegram. You don't need clout if it's actually a good idea, just don't be a sperg and have the right connections. This isn't something you "set up", it's a fire you ignite with your own action and lead by example.
>The hurtle is, as always, getting people to actually do it.
Getting people off their ass is the easiest part of the equation.
>I do not consider myself a leader yet as I must learn to follow before I lead.
<I must learn to suck dick before I can get my BWC sucked.
Gayest shit ever. It's not about who's leading or following. You lead yourself. You are your own man.
>I agree but barely anything is being done in the first place.
It might seem that way to an outsider. But much of the movement is waking up to some of the same things I'm explaining to you right now.
>I feel like Harold Covington except worse
Because you're not Covington.
>I myself have only done the bare minimum expected of me.
Who cares about other people's expectations? It's better to just focus on yourself for a while, train and learn. If you really want to go out and do protests I won't stop you, it's probably best to have that experience and see first hand how shitty it can be. Putting yourself on the spot with the possibility of getting doxxed only to be treated like shit by the average person and made to suck up to a person who really isn't all that much smarter than you.

WLM can be a mixed bag. It's an improvement because it has a more decentralized structure. But taking the name of some nigger group and playing victim isn't what fascists do.
America First isn't even NS. They're christian nationalists with gooks and niggers in their ranks. Fuentes is a confirmed gay spic. I've found groypers surprisingly easy to work with however.
Blood Tribe are a bunch of clowns that no one takes seriously. Only neonazi soyjaks look up to them. If anyone is making us look bad it's them.
Patriot Front has to be the biggest jews of the movement. They forbid their members from networking outside of PF. They try to exclude certain groups from the movement by bribing them with clout or saying "if you work with those guys you can't work with us!" They neglect their members who've been sent to prison, pretending as if they never existed.

>>4750
>But taking the name of some nigger group and playing victim isn't what fascists do.
The whole point is to show that playing victim and playing pacifist doesn't work.

>>4750
Expected of me by myself.

You say that much is being done behind the scenes. Where? I don't see it. We're weaker than ever before and growing weaker. Folks here talk about winning some grand insurgency, cutting off shitlob cities and shelling them. Beating the US army. This isn't going to happen, not with the level of activity we have at present. 
The only cope I hear is that there are secret, underground armies of 4chan nationalists. I don't buy that. I think Harold was right, we're too craven to do gat and too stupid to keep it a secret.

I'm not trying to insult you or anyone in the movement, not am I blackpilling. I believe that at present, until we get our act together, we should abandon these childish notions about living the Turner Diaries. Our only realistic option is to try to use the jewish system for our benefit until we have the strength to actively resist.

>>4752
By "using the system," I mean operate within the law. Appeal to the 1st Amendment as long as it lasts to expand our numbers until we have the capacity to resist.

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>>4752
I give up. You have to be the biggest retard I've ever met.

>>4754
You have a lot of foolish notions.

>>4736
>>4730
Unrelated anon but i really like the little extra things like you both mentioned to try and help the cause. I like being proactive.  Do you have other activities we can also do to help our cause? Thanks.

>>4756
Well we should have been stoking the flames of the UK riots but the movement kind of dropped the ball on that one and it seems to already be dying out. /pol/ found a way to troll the bong police though >>>/b/211557/.

>>4757
Based

>>4756
I agree.
So long as one is doing something to push back against the darkness, this is making our ancestors smile.

>>4757
This is based.